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Dear Michele!
Thanks for you friendly and informative answer! :-))
And your dog is a real beauty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And yes, I would like to discuss this method you use to manage strays and dogs without leash coming towards you.
You really got the right idea of my Zoltan. He is perfectly calm and relaxed. We've got him when he was a puppy and so he had never had any bad experiences. But Nelly had. :-(( She was supposed to become the 'new star ' of a German Danes breeder. But then it turned out she was a tooth short, and she had bad hips (called HD in Germany). So, she was no longer of use (profit) for this breeder and treated accordingly :-((
until we bought her out of this kennel, when she was 11 months old. Until she came to us, her life had taken place in a kennel and nowhere else. She had to be strong against male Danes and so it is quite understandebly that she is not the real master of compromises. It took us months to gain Nelly's trust, but she ist still nervous in certain situations and hates it, to be in a situation with a nervous, jumping or spinning dog. She attacks right away. Not with teeth, but she kicks and jumps and does not show any mercy whatsoever. And my cute, calm Zoltan is always protecting her, even though she is not in real danger.
None of our dogs has ever shown any aggression towards humans. They are indeed very gentle with anybody, and we would never execpt it any other way. But, to be honest, if somebody would enter our garden in the middle of the night with bad ideas in mind, I would not garanty for a friendly welcome of my dogs. And I think that this is ok. They are otherwise curious, but always friendly. Even the postman is welcome every day. :-)) That's one reason, why we keep Great Danes. They love humans!! We had a Rottweiler for 9 years, and we truely loved our Emma. But she was in another league, by all means. A great dog and very clever, bur with an attitude!!
We have just two problems with our Danes: little dogs and stupid behaviour at the leash, and going nuts in the van. So if you could help me to solve the problem with meeting other dogs running free towards us, I would be very, very gratefull for it. I know, it is all in my mind, but we have to convince this mind of mine. And all will be good. :-)).
Prong collar: I am very sorry, so say this. But there is now way, I could ever use a thing like this on my dogs. Why? Because I have tried one on myself!! and so I found out what a very painful device this is. Please, don't be mad at me for writing this, but such a thing is an absolut 'no go' for a person like me, who is spending most of her speartime to rescue dogs from bad living situations. Ceasar is teaching us methods to get along with any dog without such things as prong collars (thought there was an episode in which he did not tell the the owner not to use a cruel thing like this!!), but Cears's methods do not need spikes hurting the necks of our dogs. This is one reason why I admire him so much. He never causes pain!!!
with best wishes
Susi and her gentle giants
Great Danes are differnt in so many ways, and that's why we love them so much and do all this rescue work for them ( www.notdogge.de ) .
Hi! Susi
It would be great to work with you on the issue of dealing with stray or loose dogs. You are right that the issues isn't so much handling your dogs as much as it is overcoming your anxiety towards confronting these type of dogs.
But before we work on this issue, I thought out of fairness to Patricia I would discuss briefly her suggestion concerning the prong collar...please bare with me. You are right that Cesar does not use that type of collar when he works with a dog. Until the llusion collar, all Cesar used was a 35 cent groomer leash on dogs of all sizes and all behavior issues. Majority of people could not work handling a 80 lbs Pitbull with a 35 cent leash. The difference with Cesar is that it's not the leash but the energy behind the leash. However there are other episodes that Cesar did work with a dog that owner used the prong collar. The reason being is he tells them whatever tool works for the owner, but Cesar does show them how to use the collar properly on the dog.
The prong collar is included in one of his books under the chapter of the type of tools that are out there, which he discribes each type of collar. With the prong collar he explains that it's origin was designed to mimic the bite of a dog. (Like Cesar uses his fingers to minic a bite) Sadly there are dog owners out there that put this type of collar on there dog with no instructions on how to use it properly. Patricia does know how to use a prong collar properly, so it doesn'y hurt Rook, but as with a bite it does get his attention. When I work with someones dog I use a groomers leash on them also, because I want to know that I can control the dog with my energy not the collar or leash. I would not be comfortable using a prong collar on a dog myself, but when someone knows how to use it properly as a bite from another dog for correction it can help a owner who has difficulty controling their dog on a walk. That is why Patricia made the point to add prongs to it so it is not tight on a dog.
So much for briefly.... :-)
Most people like yourself become nerves or they panic when they encounter a loose dog on a walk. Especially when they have had a bad experience on a walk with a loose dog or dogs. It doesn't matter if it was one or many bad experiences, it's sticks to them like fly paper. I have had success working with people with this kind of fear, but others were either not willing or just unable to let go of their fear. I finally realize that they had allow this fear to become so ingrained in them that they couldn't see the possiblity of overcoming and moving on.
With you I am assuming that your fear encountering loose or stray dogs is what your Danes may do and that you would not be able to control the outcome? If you were walking by yourself without your dogs, you would not be afraid of those dogs...right?
Another question I need to ask is what is your frame of mind even before you leave the house with your dogs? What I mean by that is do you hope that you won't encounter any other dogs leash or not leashed?
Do you become tense the minute you see another dog or dogs while walking your dogs? What is your first reaction? When do you grab their collars, at what point? If you had to discribe the worst experience you had with another dog or dogs while walking your danes what would that be? Would you say that majority of the time you have had negative experiences with other dogs while walking your danes?
The last question is, did you have the same type of problem when you walked your Rottweiler? Has this always been an issue for you? Also would you say in general you are more assertive or passive when it comes to dealing with stressful situations?
I know these are a lot of questions, but I need some info first. There is no rush, take your time to think about thses questions.
Michele and Mr Adorable himself Cody
Thank you so much for answer, which I properly respond to tomorrow.
But I just can manage to say so much: I had never ever had problems like this with my Rottweiler, because Emma was just so tuned to us that she never attacked anybody. I although believe that it made a huge differnece, that I was always sure to be able to handle her. Having 150kg of dog at the leash now, that is a different story. It is all in my mind, I know. But nevertheless, I have to convince my mind, to be able to handle any situation I might come in with my Danes. And that is exactly the point, where Ceasar's way is helping me so much!!
Prong collar: Please, Michele, try it on yourself and you will feel it!! Ceasar's methods do not need such a thing. They are just better!! I'm totally and 100% convinced now of Ceasar's methods, really!! Next time I will take in a rescued Great Dane it will be much better to get along with the newcomer after all I've learned from Ceasar.
More and complete answer to you, I will send tomorrow!!
with best wishes Susi
and her Giants Zoltan, Nelly and Mary
www.NotDogge.de
Hi! Susi,
If you get a chance check out my response to a post "Trying to become a good packleader" concerning an incident someone had with a loose dog.
In your situation walking your Danes, you too have had some negative experience with excited, aggressive small dogs. During those times you felt like you could not handle your danes reactions. The fact that you can now understand that it is your energy that is influencing your dogs reaction is extremely important.
I don't know if this is possible, but can you walk your Danes one at a time while you are working on this issue? The reason being is it will help in being able to claim your space from other dogs and controling your dog. I would start with Zoltan because he will be the easier to handle with his more calm and submissive energy. I would also suggest that you start carring a cane, walking stick, or tennis racket (You can make a sling for the racket to hang over your body)
The reason for bring this object with you is to help your confidence while on the walk. Cesar suggests people using a walking stick too. Now when you encounter other dogs I want you to stop and bring up your calm and assertive energy as your dog's packleader. By stoping and not moving you are letting that other dog or dogs know that you are claiming you packs space. Stand straight, shoulders back, hold the object you are carrying infront of you like it is an extension of your body and "stand your ground" If one of your Danes starts to react use the object to block them from moving forward towards the dog. Correct them using the leash by pulling it towards you, taking them off balance. Believe me that even the other dog will sense your assertive energy. After correcting your dog once again address the other dog.
Whenever I deal with a loose or stray dog or dogs, I invision a 4 to 5 foot bubble or force field around me and my dog. I have found through experience that dogs seem to know what their boundries are when encountering another pack who is claiming their space. In all the incidents I have had with other dogs, I have yet to have a dog invade that 4 to 5 foot space I am claiming Dogs really do understand and respect calm and assertive energy, especially when it involves claiming a space.
Once the other dog has stop and is not moving forward, you should notice them sensing your energy. Nose is up smelling, just keep standing there and let your energy talk to that dog. I do not use any verbal sound unless I have to and that is usually the word "hey" nothing else. The most important thing to remember is not to move, The only time you move is when the other dog or dogs move away. Once you start to move and if that dog turns around and tries to approach again, stop and do the same thing.
By staying calm and assertive even your dogs will understand that you are handling the other dog. As a follower their job is to stay calm and submissive. Once you feel more confidence walking Zoltan encountering other dogs, then you can start to walk your other dog alone. Remember you have the object you are carrying to also block your other dogs reaction towards the approaching dog. Eventually you will be able to walk your Danes together again knowing that you can handle them around other small anoying dogs and their owners :-)
One thing Cesar tells his clients, that strength is not in the body it's in the mind. Before you take your dogs for a walk, you need to set the walk up for success. By invisioning the outcome you want and go for it, believing in your ability to make it happen as your dog's packleader
I hope what I have written here makes sense to you, it's always easier teaching it to someone in person.
Concerning the prong collar as I said I don't feel comfortable using it on a dog, but I do understand it's purpose when it is used properly. And yes when it is not used correctly it can have a negative, and abusive effect on a dog which is wrong.
I have been thinking about starting a post dealing with the issue of loose or stray dogs, I thought I would share experiences I have had and how using Cesar methods have kept me and my dog safe.
Michele
@Michele
Thanks for offering more help!! :-)
I know that the problrm is in my mind, because I'm afraid of accountering a loose dog on my walk.
I'd love to read about your step by step advise to get ME more secure on these sometimes very sudden meetings with dogs not being on a leash!!
Alas, we still have to deal with icy and snowy streets here. Training cannot start until all this mess will have melted down. It is very annoing this winter, really!!
Susi
www.Notdogge.de